Is there a comprehensive listing of all bands?

discussions about Atlanta metal bands

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kfoll
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Post by kfoll » Thu September 7th, 2006, 11:38 am

Thanks for that really awesome and thought-provoking response... gives me a bit to think about. And I totally agree that you guys here are an excellent resource. I will have to think about how I'd want to get a "list" like you're talking about... maybe "the Metal A-list?" heh.

Well, on a similar note, it occurs to me that this whole discussion might make an interesting article or essay on the metal genre and the genre-blurring that's going on in alternative music and emo -- that's pretty much how I interpret this whole "core" thing but please correct me if I'm off-base.


I think the main thrust of the article will need to take a position that this genre-blending is trying to amalgomate metal into something more palatable for the marketers and advertisers. (in case you can't tell I've got an axe to grind against the big Marketing Machine Big-Brother mentality that consumes our nation). These marketers would erode the true spirit of metal into something they could sell. I really and truly believe that any genre, no matter how much independence it starts out with, is eventually going to have to fight this kind of subversive erosion. If you look at the history of rock in general you see this: look at classic rock of the 60s for instance, and how it is now being used in commercials, which would have horrified some of the true hippies back in that time. You see that happening now with some of the underground 80's stuff too, which is really sad, because although I'm not really into that stuff, the spirit of it was a lot more original and independent than anything else that was being done in that time. The question I have to ask is: would I want to turn on the television in 2050 (if I live that long) and see a commercial in which a Morbid Angel song is being used to sell some bathroom tissue? Or would I want to see some aging metal stars on a panel for a stupid reality tv show? Or something worse they could come up with -- worse still, having this "core" dominating the entire scene??? (More frightening than a Cannibal Corpse album cover!)

I think my main task is to get down to the reason why people make the kind of music they do make and why it is important to them. When reaidng Neurnomicon's response it occured to me to wonder at its being such a huge issue for him... but then I realized that it's also an issue to me, for the reason I stated above. But I think there must be something deeper underlying this hatred of "core" -- something that has to do with the real reason we're all into metal and not alternative, emo, disco, rap, or whatever. (I am also into Jazz, blues and classical if that makes any sense but I don't try to mix and match).

In any case, if anyone wants to add any thoughts about this "core" issue, please feel free, I'll be reading with interest. I'm going to also be doing a bit more reseach of my own. I will of course list yall all in the "credits" heh... for whatever that's worth, since I don't know anyone's full names. (feel free to email me your comments with your full name if you want to get the real credit!)
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NeuroNomicon
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Post by NeuroNomicon » Thu September 7th, 2006, 12:45 pm

Absolutely, Miss, without even a shred of a doubt. Big business eats subcultures for breakfast.

It would make a fantastic issue to bring forth in some sort of in-depth writing. I have no doubts the WREKage dudes and dudette would be helpful in obtaining additional information on this. WREKage is a small island of joy on a radio filled with consumerist shlock solely to sell advertising spots on. I've been of the paranoid belief that certain "forces", whoever they may be, are attempting to make metal far more acceptable to a mainstream and as wide an audience as possible, and this is accomplished by retaining enough of the core elements, while essentially dumbing it down enough to where it can be tied in with cross-platform marketing, etc. It's really a disgrace, and the main argument I have against bands like DragonForce, A7X, and that type of "metal" do more harm to the genre than good. A lot more. Sure, you'll bring in the casual listener, and maybe they will delve deeper and find some band like Necrophagist, but in the long run it takes the soul out of it. Bands like that are essentially Lite-Metal. Call it a different name, hard-rock, or something, but it has more to do with cock-rock and glam than it does "metal". You can take a band like Dimmu Borgir, who I love, on the other end of the spectrum of being so patently "metal" that it's just gotten past the point of absurdity. That being said, at least they're decent representatives of the genre, as well they haven't compromised the style at all, other than turning away from the whole, "record you black metal album in a tin can" sound-texturing. They may be famous, but they're definitely not living in mansions and banging playmates.

I think Neuronomicon is guilty of some genre-bending itself, but I know we're not doing it to make a buck, we all love coldwave and that's going to rub off at some point, but indeed a lot of the cross-genrification is a means to end with the goal being: sell a lot of records. I think the labels are partially to blame, and I think the bands are partially to blame. There's a lot to be said about making money doing what you love, but this goes into a greater sphere than that. You've got this sort of insidious situation where I think a lot of what some of these bands are doing is to deliberately coax the more casual listener into an impulse buy, and the meme that heavy metal is "cool" is slowly leaking into the mainstream. When guitar music was dead, and everyone was listening to rap, this wasn't even a remote problem, but it sort of evolved into a different beast altogether recently.

I'm not personally threatened by the "metal"core nor any of the cores, as I just look at them as the nu-metal of the 21st century. These kids are going to look back at themselves in ten years and wonder what in the fuck they were thinking wearing spandex pants and having flock of seagulls haircuts, and singing about how hard they cried when they got dumped. What this has to do with heavy metal is beyond me, but I'm more outraged that everyone and their brother is running around nowadays calling themselves "metal". It's become a bit ridiculous, and a big part of me sees it getting a lot worse before it gets better. I'd hate to see Dark Funeral in an advertisement for makeup products.

You know, when it comes down to it, the lords and ladies here on the forums are really cool people, and they've typically got a lock-down on the ins-and outs of heavy metal. I think Matt's probably the hardest to please, supreme lord of all that is hard'n heavy, but he's a fuckin' metal head.

I don't exactly like the idea of turning on 105.3 "The Buzz" and hearing Arsis, but at the same time I don't think a band like that would compromise itself for a wider audience. At the same time, it's not the extreme end of the metal spectrum that is neccessarily threatened by this sort of thing.

The "cores" of general sort are still mostly underground and not a threat to the greater whole of metal. I think my biggest beef right now is with the whole "Southern Metal" thing that's sort of grown out of the hardcore movement. Sometimes I think it's about dressing up in silly looking costumes and selling some sort of "lifestyle" for these folks rather than just rocking some metal out. Like a self-affirming realisation and sales pitch in order for them to curl up in bed and feel good about themselves at night, whilst merely living a lie and selling a sham. The "Southern Metal" thing is one of the biggest farces I've ever seen, and is intrinsically linked to this whole core-ism issue anyway.

At any rate, best wishes on your investigative efforts. I'm sure you will turn up something good.

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Post by ProstheticHead12 » Thu September 7th, 2006, 4:33 pm

NeuroNomicon wrote:Greg has a point, we like all metal, but there are some aspects that are just gooch-tastic. Shadows Fall's vocalist ruins it. DragonForce's vocalist ruins it. The "metalcore" bands vocals usually ruin it. Mnemic is a fucking great band, the vocals are queer'r than a football bat. Vocals will make or break a band, and like drummers good vocalists are hard to come by.

Mr. Ackerfeldt's vox are glorious. Maiden fucking owns, and they've been doing it for goddamned ever. My favourite power metal vocalist is Tim Owens from Priest/Iced Earth. The Glorious Burden was fucking awesome.
Shadows Fall's vocalist ruins it because he can't fucking sing in tune to save his life. I personally don't like Owens at all and am of the opinion that Barlow suited the band much better. Dragonforce is awesome and the vocals fit perfectly. They haven't compromised a bit, so so what if kids like them?

My main point earlier is that y'all seem be against the idea of clean vocals period and there are only certain ways metal can be played. I agree that there are a lot of shitty local metalcore bands around. I think most people's problem is that it's a bunch of kids with no history/perspective and no ability to write an original song. I like metalcore, hardcore, grindcore, yourmomcore and whatever else when it's done well and with some originality. At least they aren't numetal.
Fuck it, Dude, let's go bowling.

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Post by NeuroNomicon » Thu September 7th, 2006, 8:01 pm

The problem with clean vocals, from my opinion, is that it detracts from the music about 9 times out of ten. It's just an opinion, and exceptions exist because the pull it off properly. You're absolutely right, Brian Fair can't sing to save his life, and ends up barking like a fuckin' rapper trying to sound tough.

Another notable exception is Speed Strid.

For the life of my I can't get into DragonForce. That one song of theirs is phenomenally played, but I can't relate to the lyrical content in the least, and I'm not a big fan of vocals like that, for the majority of the times. The vocals from Hammerfall were a big turn off to me as well, and they're another kickass band, where the vocals ruined it.

There's several parts on our upcoming EP that have "clean" vox, so I'm being a hypocrite here to a good extent, but I think clean vox run the risk of being a gamble. I personally like when they're blended "tastefully", but that is a totally subjective term that comes with strings attached. Opeth's tasteful about it. My buds all like Manowar, but I can't get into those vox either. I don't know, it's risky.

I think its one thing to sing, and quite another to pull an Avenged Sevenfold. They need to have less tattoos and more tact. Then again, being total scumbags has made them a shitload of money, and earned the respect of all the 14 year old girls "keeping it brutal".

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Post by kfoll » Fri September 8th, 2006, 9:03 pm

Yeah I think the issue of genre-blending ought to be qualified... I've always been told that its the only way a new genre or style can emerge, because there's really nothing new, or it would be too weird for anyone to swallow. That's how Rock 'n' Roll came into being in the first place. Anyway, I think I'd probably say that what we're talking about as being "core" -i.e., the kids wearing "slip-on" shoes (lol!) etc. -- when I think about them as a product of the society we live in, I'd have to conclude that they're probably a lot like those bands that are trying to remake 80's dance music style (i.e. Franz Ferdinand etc.) in that they're simply using the most superficial elements of a style and turning them into something that's completely not of the same spirit. In that I think the bands and the kids are less to blame than is the media and society, because for some reason they've been told that it's "cool" to do that...
I dunno... it always fails me when I attempt to figure out why people go to such lengths just because someone else told them to or told them it was cool... where is the independent thinker these days? And that is the complete opposite of what metal is all about in my opinion.

On a similar note, I'm very much interested to know what specifically these "societal forces" are you speak of, and why they're trying to see metal become the next big thing.


Just to fit all this into the bigger picture, so you'll know how this input is helping me: a few months ago I started to wonder to whether Atlanta or the south in general has a distinctive sound or style of its own. I've never heard anyone say that, mind you, but it's a kind of hunch I guess. It's a whole 'nother subject, but it pertains to the present discussion in that I don't think you can really define what something is without at least giving some attention to what it isn't... you know, compare and contrast and all that shit they make you do in college writing classes. This discussion is putting some of that into perspective for me, especially given the last few shows I've been to.
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Post by BlazeTSU » Sat September 9th, 2006, 1:23 am

NeuroNomicon wrote: ......If I had the time, I'd look into what the hell started metalcore, and why the they decided they would put metal in their description. Or why they think slip-on shoes are cool. Or why they want to get all up in metal's ing business, for that matter.....
i like slip-on shoes and i am in no way metalcore......i actually feel pretty closely to what you are saying..........but......SLIP-ON SHOES AREN'T METALCORE! they'd be redneck before anything b/c wal-mart has had them on the shelves and on my feet for years and years.

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Post by NeuroNomicon » Sat September 9th, 2006, 9:33 am

Touche', Sir Blaze, touche'.

I will make an amendment and say that slip on shoes with SPANDEX jeans gets you metalcore scene points. Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen Jason Kelly without slip-ons, and he's about as un-metalcore as they come...

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Post by BlazeTSU » Sat September 9th, 2006, 11:09 am

NeuroNomicon wrote:Touche', Sir Blaze, touche'.

I will make an amendment and say that slip on shoes with SPANDEX jeans gets you metalcore scene points. Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think I've ever seen Jason Kelly without slip-ons, and he's about as un-metalcore as they come...

this jason kelly observation is very correct. he has been wearing wal-mart ninjas for about as long as i've known him.....about 10 years.

another mistaken shoe from a few years ago were the wal-mart special velcro's that all the metalcore and hardcore kids starting wearing. i'd been sporting those and combat boots exclusively from '98-'04. i was actually told i was a hxc kid for wearing them once by someone who obviously doesn't hate tying shoestrings as much as i do. and infact, the first time i saw someone other than me wearing them TSU was playing in columbia south carolina and all the crusty kids out there were sporting them.......also very un-metalcore.

needless to say........i won't let any genre keep me from wearing or doing anything i enjoy.......no matter how much i hate said genre/fad. i still wear hoodies, slip-ons, continue getting tattooes, listening to johnny cash, watching zombie movies....etc.

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Post by stalindrummer » Sat September 9th, 2006, 12:28 pm

Only metal-core kids jerk-off, so i quit masturbating!


haha yeah suck it ya jerk-offs!

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Post by WREKage-Paul » Sun September 10th, 2006, 12:58 pm

BlazeTSU wrote: another mistaken shoe from a few years ago were the wal-mart special velcro's that all the metalcore and hardcore kids starting wearing. i'd been sporting those and combat boots exclusively from '98-'04.
Uh-oh.... I might have accidentally stumbled into...A Scene. :shock:

I dunno if I'd call those shoes "special," but I've been wearing those ultra-cheap $9.44 Wal-Mart velcro sneakers for years....wear 'em for four months or so 'til they get stinky, then toss 'em and get a new pair.

Yipes. I'm not trying to be a scenester....I'm just a cheap bastard! :lol:

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Post by Greg » Sun September 10th, 2006, 5:47 pm

stalindrummer wrote:Only metal-core kids jerk-off, so i quit masturbating!


haha yeah suck it ya jerk-offs!
shit shit shit why didn't anyone tell me this before? I feel so much less underground now! :oops:

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Post by Strange » Tue September 12th, 2006, 3:52 pm

Metal vs Core, Metal & Core BFF, Corporate Metal, Subgenre pigeonholing mass market masturbation, and the trendsetting nature of Paul’s feet…

The important things to me with regard to the music I enjoy are originality/uniqueness, ideas, conviction, and ultimately whether or not it moves me.

I really think that this need to put a specific label on everything just helps the dumbing down process along. Marketing folks love genre labeling because it makes their job easier. “I don’t have to figure out how to describe this band. They’re a “Blah-coreâ€Â￾ band. All the blah-core kids will pick it up because they think blah-core rules.â€Â￾ Ultimately it does a disservice to the artists and to music in general because the more sheep-like fans decide they only like “Hyper-Melodic Death Coreâ€Â￾ and nothing else. "Why check out that band I’ve never heard of if they’re not HMDC?â€Â￾ Worse, it just gives rise to more parrot-like behavior. “It’s okay to have this ridiculous haircut because I’m not alone.â€Â￾ “I hear that nautical star tattoos are in this year.â€Â￾ “I should write another song with the Hardcore Breakdown and the gay pretty chorus because I know that will sell.â€Â￾ And the shit flows downstream from there…

With the exceptions of the true innovators of any given genre (and in some cases especially so with them), I would think that the artists don’t like being called “Clownshoe Coreâ€Â￾ or whatever has been made up this week. The truly original artists are damn hard to force into these cells. (SYL immediately comes to mind.) Others such as Lamb of God were doing great until 5 thousand look-and-sound-alikes came along and made them seem generic by default. Same thing with the Harsh vocal/clean vocal dynamic. When Fear Factory released Soul of a New Machine, it was fresh and invigorating. Now every god-damned band on the planet does it, and since Fear Factory entrenched themselves in their own formula, they’re no better than the rest.

As far as Atlanta goes, I think that a lot of the older musicians are trying to pave their own paths while a lot of the kids are content to follow (for now). Not trying to alienate the youth…I’m just sick of bands that sound like Lamb of God. I’ve heard some really cool shit here in the last few months though. Gnostic, From Exile, Novum Organum…not to mention Mastodon and Daath. All heavy, original bands…without a ‘core in sight. There may be hope for this town yet…
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Post by BlazeTSU » Fri September 15th, 2006, 12:42 am

WREKage-Paul wrote:
BlazeTSU wrote: another mistaken shoe from a few years ago were the wal-mart special velcro's that all the metalcore and hardcore kids starting wearing. i'd been sporting those and combat boots exclusively from '98-'04.
Uh-oh.... I might have accidentally stumbled into...A Scene. :shock:

I dunno if I'd call those shoes "special," but I've been wearing those ultra-cheap $9.44 Wal-Mart velcro sneakers for years....wear 'em for four months or so 'til they get stinky, then toss 'em and get a new pair.
dude, you gotta wear them PAST the stinky stage. its hell on earth for about a week or two but when the stink goes away, and it does, those shoes treat you like a king. most comfortable $9 you've ever spent.



Yipes. I'm not trying to be a scenester....I'm just a cheap bastard! :lol:
exactly

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Post by NeuroNomicon » Fri September 15th, 2006, 4:51 pm

Those grey ones with the dual velcro straps are fucking hoss. Those things say "I don't give a fuck" like nobody's business. Kudos, lads.

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Post by TheKshatriya » Tue September 19th, 2006, 3:43 pm

I remember Will once said that a big reason of why people started hating nu metal was because it was around the time when bands like Cryptopsy were around playing with outstanding musicianship when other nu metal bands were playing like shit and making a lot of money for it.

Its kind of like the same thing.

We have bands like Unmerciful, Krisiun, Hate Eternal playing awesome metal, and even though they can play extremely well, its not all about that. While that band is still pretty big they arent making that much money, other metalcore bands like Avenge Sevenfold, Unearth, As I Lay Dying, and other bands like those making a lot of money. Metal wise the metalcore bands are just so watered down and weak and that whats getting really popular.

Ive been into hardcore just as long as Ive been into metal, they both mean a great deal to me. But they are two completely different things and should stay that way. I like when some hardcore bands are heavy and maybe have a little bit of metal influence but are still a hardcore band. Blacklisted is a perfect example.

In a nutshell, to me, metal core are ex hardcore kids who were into it for fashion and then decided metal was playing chugy breakdowns while screaming about relationships and started doing that.

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